Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

Anon · Post by **Anon** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:41 pm

Just because it fits into a crime triangle doesn't mean it's a crime. The same goes for bottled water and running a torrent tracker. If running a torrent tracker is illegal (questionable) then a crime triangle is irrelevant and I'm not sure why you even brought it up.

Dog Cow · Post by **Dog Cow** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:11 am

Anon wrote:The same goes for bottled water and running a torrent tracker. If running a torrent tracker is illegal (questionable)

I think I'll open a torrent tracker for OSS.

Yes, this is in fact one of the PB's defenses: that not all of the torrents are illegal, and that torrent technology has legal uses.

Techie-Micheal · Post by **Techie-Micheal** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:30 am

Dog Cow wrote:
Anon wrote:The same goes for bottled water and running a torrent tracker. If running a torrent tracker is illegal (questionable)
I think I'll open a torrent tracker for OSS.

Yes, this is in fact one of the PB's defenses: that not all of the torrents are illegal, and that torrent technology has legal uses.

I never said all torrents were illegal, but that speaks to the second half of what I said above:

Then when it came to them being responsible and taking things down, they were extremely verbose about refusing to be responsible.

Like I said, I don't pull these things out of my hat to be annoying, there's a reason to my madness and a madness to my reason.

Heck, I downloaded a torrent with rainbow tables. Oh noze! But you and I both know that TPB has refused to take down copyrighted material and other sensitive information ... That speaks volumes right there.

Green Light · Post by **Green Light** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:59 am

Lots of different opinions, I support TBH.
First off, even if they are somewhat involved in the illegal-ness they aren't the actual offender.
They do not hold any copyrighted material on their servers.
Even greater point is the laws that apply in the U.S. don't apply in Sweden. (in this case at least)
Not all torrents are illegal as mentioned before.. (I downloaded fedora from TBH)
And the reason behind them not removing copyrighted file torrents is because well the laws don't effect them, because they are U.S. laws.

I'm not saying what TBH is doing is right.. IMO they will come out as the winner in this case..

Tripp · Post by **Tripp** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:50 am

I followed the entire TPB trial and I do a lot of reading and research on file sharing in general.

I support The Pirate Bay. People seem to forget that that's torrents that are tracked by TPB that are perfectly legal, and there are some that are not. So to say their intent is to assist in copyright infringement doesn't stick. Also, .torrents is data about data, so at the most they assist but at the end of the day, people/users host the actual content and not The Pirate Bay. So what does that accomplish? Ok, so you took down a tracker but all those users still have the illegal content on their computers and not to mention, if you think TPB will go down then you're nuts. After their servers were raided they were back up within three days. Should the admins of TPB be convicted, if you don't think they're not ready to have someone else step in with backups and keep the site going...your simply nuts. Taking them to trial will do nothing to stop anything in the end. More trackers will just pop up.

Plus, just because a works is available on TPB, who's to say the person who uploaded it doesn't have the rights to it? Who's to say all the people who download a certain works don't have the right to do so? If I was to buy a DVD and lost it, I'd feel like I have the right to download it as I already bought it. They're going directly after TPB without investigating any users which are the actual criminals.

And also, I find it funny that today's society see it so much as a crime. What happened to people standing up for what they believe in. When I download something, it doesn't physically involve me stealing it, hurting anyone or anything else. Some could argue it makes the artists and actors and what not lose money but that's a whole other story. I truly believe that the admins of TPB are sticking up for what they believe in and they're willing to face criminal charges to show their support.

Also, TPB did not write their software. The tracker is Open Tracker, an open source torrent tracker. They also use LightTPD. Only thing I see that they wrote is the layout of the site and some other small things.

Green Light · Post by **Green Light** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:05 am

Drugs wrote:....Ok, so you took down a tracker but all those users still have the illegal content on their computers and not to mention....

Exactly, even if TBH were taken down, people can just turn to isohunt,mininova, etc...
Yeah, I agree that TBH won't can't be taken down because it's not illegal.

Green Light · Post by **Green Light** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:56 am

A_O_C wrote:The host is hosting the site TPB is on. I would think that at least they would be brought in. If my hosting company found out that I was hosting a site with that content, they would shut me down. If they wouldnt be brought into a lawsuit against me, why should they care then? Why is it against the TOS? Just throwing things out there to think about.

Actually the police raided TBP servers, but three days later TBH had it's back-ups running.
So I guess the host has just as much of a case as TBH..
So your right. I agree that you can not throw in TBH and their servers into the pile, when the wrong-doing is the user who is doing the sharing.

Anon · Post by **Anon** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:01 am

Techie-Micheal wrote:But you and I both know that TPB has refused to take down copyrighted material and other sensitive information ... That speaks volumes right there.

No it doesn't. Strictly speaking, it doesn't matter if TPB have one torrent or ten torrents or billions of torrents. If their actions are illegal, then it really doesn't matter, and if they have or have not taken down torrents in the past really should have no bearing on whether or not their actions are illegal. My, a lot of what you're saying is rather irrelevant.

ToonArmy · Post by **ToonArmy** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:07 pm

Drugs wrote:If I was to buy a DVD and lost it, I'd feel like I have the right to download it as I already bought it.

The thing is though you don't and get screwed in the pocket because you don't.

Drugs wrote:They're going directly after TPB without investigating any users which are the actual criminals.

Going after the users hasn't helped the image of the recording industry in America, plus taking out a tracker will disrupt a lot more torrent users than going after individual users.

Post by **thecoalman** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:59 pm

I'm not defending the actions of TBH however the fundamental problem with shutting them down or any other service of this nature is where do you draw the line between what is legitimate and not? If I start a similar service and 1%, 5%, 50%.... of the files listed are illegal where do I cross the line from legitimate site into being illegal?

Also keep in mind the MPAA and the RIAA who are the driving force behind getting them shut down have a long history of attempting to stifle technology and have been successful to some degree. That list includes VHS, MP3 players, portable CD recorders, DAT format, computer CD burners.... All of these technologies have come into the scope of these organizations and their degree of success varies from the CD/DVD burners being unaffected to killing the DAT format. Ever wonder why there isn't cheap portable CD burners? It's because there is tax on them making them unaffordable, at least within the U.S.

They get no sympathy from me where TBH is concerned.

Dog Cow · Post by **Dog Cow** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:21 pm

Techie-Micheal wrote:
Dog Cow wrote:
Anon wrote:The same goes for bottled water and running a torrent tracker. If running a torrent tracker is illegal (questionable)
I think I'll open a torrent tracker for OSS.

Yes, this is in fact one of the PB's defenses: that not all of the torrents are illegal, and that torrent technology has legal uses.
I never said all torrents were illegal,

I wasn't replying to anything you said; I was merely expanding upon Anon's remark.

Techie-Micheal · Post by **Techie-Micheal** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:25 pm

Anon wrote:
Techie-Micheal wrote:But you and I both know that TPB has refused to take down copyrighted material and other sensitive information ... That speaks volumes right there.
No it doesn't. Strictly speaking, it doesn't matter if TPB have one torrent or ten torrents or billions of torrents. If their actions are illegal, then it really doesn't matter, and if they have or have not taken down torrents in the past really should have no bearing on whether or not their actions are illegal. My, a lot of what you're saying is rather irrelevant.

Is it irrelevant? Because you've not shown how their actions don't speak for themselves. Can't and won't are two different things. The fact that they are supporting the illegal actions (they've received many a complaint about taking down copyrighted material ...) of others shows that they know full well what's going on and refuse to be responsible for their users' actions.

lurttinen · Post by **lurttinen** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:56 pm

The question is. According to swedish and EU laws. Are service providers liable for what their users (customers) do?
Yes, they are aware there is illegal stuff floating around and they have put up a page ridiculing take down notices.
Is that illegal? Can they do it?
What does the swedish and EU legislations have to say about it?

Morally they are quilty, but legally is another matter. Moral and legal does not always meet.

Techie-Micheal · Post by **Techie-Micheal** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:12 pm

lurttinen wrote:The question is. According to swedish and EU laws. Are service providers liable for what their users (customers) do?
Yes, they are aware there is illegal stuff floating around and they have put up a page ridiculing take down notices.
Is that illegal? Can they do it?
What does the swedish and EU legislations have to say about it?

That's the question, does the EU/Swedish legislation have anything on accessories? That's my whole point here, they are in full knowledge of the illegal activities that their users are doing, but because they have refused to be responsible, they would be subject to whatever accessory legislation that might be in place.

Morally they are quilty, but legally is another matter. Moral and legal does not always meet.

Sadly.

Techie-Micheal · Post by **Techie-Micheal** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:13 pm

Dog Cow wrote:
Techie-Micheal wrote:
Dog Cow wrote:
Anon wrote:The same goes for bottled water and running a torrent tracker. If running a torrent tracker is illegal (questionable)
I think I'll open a torrent tracker for OSS.

Yes, this is in fact one of the PB's defenses: that not all of the torrents are illegal, and that torrent technology has legal uses.
I never said all torrents were illegal,
I wasn't replying to anything you said; I was merely expanding upon Anon's remark.

Fair enough.