I beg of you (my lil rant)

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DemonBob
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I beg of you (my lil rant)

Post by DemonBob » Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:06 pm

Please don't ever ever make this a pay forum, do that, and you got a memeber/user for life.

Alright now that the whineing is out of the way, I've been a forum user for years ever since ikonboard version 2, and ubb was starting to get really big. And it always disappoints me to see some of the good boards out there that were out there either turn to, pay for use, or just plain go down the hole. Don't get me wrong phpbb is a GREAT board. But I did not find it till about 6 months to a year ago when IPB went pay on me. IMHO all the boards about thiere UUB, VBulletin, IPB, and IB are really good board, but are way over priced. Since it is my experaince is that it is the orgiranl memeber that make the board good. Have you ever realized that on almost all boards a suggested mod or hack is soon added hard coded to it afterwards. Thus makeing the forum better, and making most author get their head up thier ass thinking they coded the best board, but with out the members that would not have security updates, and stuff like that.

Lets put it this way, you got a dev board for a forum your writing, 20000 memeber so far, 5000 or so of those memeber are alright in codeing and moding php maybe 1000 of the 5000 are very very very good at php or perl. And those are the ones that find mostly all the errors, suggest fixs, and write new features. Only to have thier work hard coded in, then evently the forum gets so good that it goes into "pay for me mode". If you ask me thats kinda ass backwards, since after the inital beta release the users find mostly all the errorsw, and suggest a fix for more then half of them. I've see this happen with IPB with my own eyes, so i know im not seeing stuff. Yes I know the aurtohors send 1000's of hours coding. but without the memebers it would go no where, then they tell there memeber, hey well since we did all these fixs and it is a stable release we're going to charge you $199 for it, which is way over priced, IMHO,

FOr one thing not many common forum admins can aford that kinda dough, I could under stand about $60 for a owned liscense and maybe $30, which is a price that I think most of us can saveup for w/o a proble in a few paychecks

Well this is the end of my rant, feel free to post comments.

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Post by Heimidal » Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:16 pm

Perhaps you aren't familiar with our philosophy. This board will never become a pay product. No worries.

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Post by Techie-Micheal » Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:17 pm

I don't think you have to worry about us going paid. :) If something happens, and it does, the community can take the code, and offer their own version anyway, thanks to the license. :) But, that won't be happening, so need to worry about that.
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hehe was not really worried.

Post by DemonBob » Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:24 pm

I'm not really worried. Just needed rant, I surf all the major bulletin board dev groups every other day like PHPBB, UBB, IPB, IB, and vB and it gets aggervating. To see 1000's of members contribute to a forum to help report/fix/and debug erorrs/even add features to it, then it turns to pay....
just kinda "dirty" to me.

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hehe was not really worried.

Post by DemonBob » Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:25 pm

double post. *cat jumped on the keyboard when I awaylol*
Last edited by DemonBob on Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: hehe was not really worried.

Post by TC » Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:25 pm

DemonBob wrote: I'm not really worried. Just needed rant, I surf all the major bulletin board dev groups every other day like PHPBB, UBB, IPB, IB, and vB and it gets aggervating. To see 1000's of members contribute to a forum to help report/fix/and debug erorrs/even add features to it, then it turns to pay....
just kinda "dirty" to me.

you said it, not me. :D
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Post by Graphic » Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:27 pm

If they change their licence and start charging someone else will just come out with another free one.
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Post by DemonBob » Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:33 pm

Graphic wrote: If they change their licence and start charging someone else will just come out with another free one.


Ahhh, but then it will take atleast 6 months to a year to get thier new board to a very stable release. Then not to mention no autor wants to code a fully featured forum for start.....tooo much of a big hassle, So it starts out with a standard structure and features that allow it to run stable, usally after it gets stable, then the memeber contrib, mods/hacks for it, that evently gets hard coded in later releases. Seen this with IB, IPB, UBB, and VB

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Post by Graphic » Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:39 pm

DemonBob wrote: Ahhh, but then it will take atleast 6 months to a year to get thier new board to a very stable release. Then not to mention no autor wants to code a fully featured forum for start.....tooo much of a big hassle, So it starts out with a standard structure and features that allow it to run stable, usally after it gets stable, then the memeber contrib, mods/hacks for it, that evently gets hard coded in later releases. Seen this with IB, IPB, UBB, and VB

Six months isn't that long. You can use an older version of the free phpBB for that long until someone writes a new one.

PHP isn't very hard. There are tens of thousands of webmasters who would love to make an impart like phpBB has. I don't think it would be difficult trying to find people to code on it.
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Post by Techie-Micheal » Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:15 pm

Graphic wrote: If they change their licence and start charging someone else will just come out with another free one.
That's the beauty of GPL. As I understand it, if you change your license, any release before that license change is still under the GPL. Then it would be a small matter to release your own. That's what sf.net did, and someone else took the code before sf.net made their code commercial.
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Post by A_Jelly_Doughnut » Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:58 am

Indeed, if the phpBB administrators decided to make 2.2 proprietary tomorrow, I believe that work could resume by March 1 with a new team of developers. A week for a takeover of the sourceforge project (maximum, if theFinn would allow it), a few days to find developers (probably mostly from the phpBB MOD community), and another week to get our acts together.

Author's note: I know, I'm using first person pronouns. This does not imply that I would force my way up to the top (although I wouldn't be against it ^_^)
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Post by David Robinson » Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:24 am

Hypothetically, if I were to get a CVS version of 2.2 before phpBB said that it's paid, could I fix it up yadda yadda and not have to pay?

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Post by drathbun » Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:48 am

David Robinson wrote: Hypothetically, if I were to get a CVS version of 2.2 before phpBB said that it's paid, could I fix it up yadda yadda and not have to pay?

I would say yes.

What would be - not that it would happen - the process to convert from GPL to $$$? Can it even legally occur?
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Post by R. U. Serious » Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:58 am

Graphic wrote: PHP isn't very hard. There are tens of thousands of webmasters who would love to make an impart like phpBB has. I don't think it would be difficult trying to find people to code on it.


Neither is writing in plain english very hard, however you do not see alot of shakespeares running around. Frankly there is an incredibly huge gap between wanting to and being able to, add to that the importance of "having the time to" and you will realize that the phpBB project is something special.


As for changing licences, I think that as long as developers are being totally open about their intentions, it's ok. For example with Feeddemon it has been that way: free betas and RCs, however it was very clear from the start that they were (timely) limited and it would be released only as paid-for-software. Absolutely ok IMHO.
However saying one thing today and the opposite tomorrow is not ok. I tend to go with the more reliable projects... ;)

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Post by Techie-Micheal » Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:01 pm

drathbun wrote:
David Robinson wrote:Hypothetically, if I were to get a CVS version of 2.2 before phpBB said that it's paid, could I fix it up yadda yadda and not have to pay?

I would say yes.

What would be - not that it would happen - the process to convert from GPL to $$$? Can it even legally occur?
Yes and yes. David Robinson is correct, if he were to grab the latest CVS right now, and phpBB went paid tomorrow, he could legally do it. You can also charge for your product while under the GPL, so yes, you can change your license. But, the devs cannot say that they all of a sudden want to start charging for 2.0.6. The GPL only allows you to change your license between releases.*

R.U. Serious: That was not called for. Graphic is free to speak in Elizabethan if he wants to, it is still proper grammar, and hence following the rules here.

* Per my understanding
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