[4.0.x][DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

[Sniper_E]

It's not a problem it's an issue with small text on mobile and on desktop also if you ask a lot of users. It has become the standard we have all gotten use to.

But from the demos posted it looks like the new style being worked up is taking care of all that. Go look at his work. I'm down with moving to this new style.

And I would be ok with dropping prosilver and _pro to the side to go with this new style. It's time for phpbb to move into a new style if they feel they are ready for it.

I also think you guys are being too harsh on prosilver and _pro. They are not quite that bad, at all. If they were that bad then most of the custom styles presented here would have larger icons and text... along with their layout and colors.

[Tastenplayer]

It is difficult in a prosilver based style to make everything wider and bigger. In many places it is impossible. It would be a never-ending job. If you change certain things, everything just shifts.
I can't understand why people can be so negative about a complete change with a completely new style structure. My post was not meant to denigrate the Prosilver, but rather to counter the so negative statement of C4thie. But Prosilver is simply getting on a bit. Even if you have got used to him .

[david63]

I would be ok with dropping prosilver and _pro to the side to go with this new style

And in doing so you will, at a stroke, break every front facing extension

[3Di]

SNIP

You are talking sense IMHO.

[C4thie]

It is difficult in a prosilver based style to make everything wider and bigger. In many places it is impossible. It would be a never-ending job. If you change certain things, everything just shifts.
I can't understand why people can be so negative about a complete change with a completely new style structure. My post was not meant to denigrate the Prosilver, but rather to counter the so negative statement of C4thie. But Prosilver is simply getting on a bit. Even if you have got used to him .

Im not sure if it's really so difficult. I guarantee you that it's possible to make current default style (prosilver) to be fully responsive and google tests won't have any problems with it.

And there are already themes (based on prosilver) which looks and works the same as Chameleon will work and look in the future.

But what Im afraid of is the fact that in Chameleon it probably won't be possible to reverse some changes. So that's my problem. In prosilver I can decide how to make my own style because prosilver is basic enough. So I've got many options. However Im pretty sure that Chameleon will impose me some changes and I won't be able to reverse it. If it's going to work this way, then prosilver will be better than chameleon. Because more options = better. And limiting users to some certain changes is not development.

So at this point sticking to prosilver and also releasing second style, which is dedicated for mobiles only would be in my opinion better and it would be something totally new for phpbb. Cause this kind of functionality doesn't exist right now. While making another style is not a feature at all. If you really want, then there are already plenty of modern styles for phpbb. So actually it already exists. So is making another one is going to change something? I don't think so. It will be just annoying for a lot of admins, because they'll be forced to change into new default theme. While plenty of them already made their own modern and fully responsive styles based on prosilver. So chameleon as default theme won't bring anything they don't already have. Apart from additional problems which comes with the change of default theme.

And at this point both group of users would be satisfied. Pc and mobile users would have style and functions which are fully dedicated for their device. Rather than making 1 style for everything. Because at this point some group will always lose.


Also:
Forums didn't "die" due to the responsiveness. Because forums are already responsive enough. And quite often forums works even better than some popular social media sites.

The difference is in comfort. For example on reddit you've got 1 account to write everywhere. Same with discord - 1 account to use every single discord server. Etc, etc. So these platforms are made from scratch for the masses. While purpose of forums is different.
Also budget and marketing has a huge impact. And additionally some addictive mechanisms. Like the habit of mindless scrolling things on social media etc, etc. And that's not because these sites are better if it comes to responsivity than forums. It's something totally different. And there's huge difference in purpouse. Social medias are for something else than forums. So it's not possible to compete with it. No matter what you do. To compete with social media sites you would have to change forums into something totally different. Into another social media platform at this point. But then people who use forums right now for what they're really for, would lose it. Because even if forums are not so popular right now, then forums still provides something unique what's needed in certain situations. But yes - it's just situations. But it doesn't mean that forums are worse. People just use different things for different purpose. And nowadays it just works how it supposed to work since begining. In the past it was just some unique situation for forums and it wasnt natural at all. People just used it then for almost everything. What's not normal situation. I'll give weird example. I eat 1 time at a day. So I don't do it very often during the day, right? But does it mean that I can stop eating? No. It's very important thing but I just don't spend whole day on doing it. Same thing is if it comes to forums. It's just not place to spend whole day on it. It's just used when it's needed. For some certain situations. But it doesn't mean that forums died or are less important than in the past. Right now we just use forums for what we're supposed to use it. Rather than using it for everything.
So comparing current forums popularity to the past is not smart at all.
In the past we just had less options. So we was spending a lot of our time on forums. Because there wasn't anything else. While right now we share our time between more apps and places than in the past. So our forums usage looks different.
My forums for example are still quite popular. Why? Because it provides something that's not possible to do anywhere else. We've got every social media page, discord, reddit, etc, etc. But for some certain situations people still need to login on forums and do it there. Because other places are just not good enought for it. But does it mean that people spend whole day on forums? No. And is it bad? No. And is it making forums less important? No.

Our perception is disturbed because we remember times when amount of possibilities was so small.
And we compare it to current times when we've got a lot more options. And we divide our time between them.

[david63]

So at this point sticking to prosilver and also releasing second style, which is dedicated for mobiles only would be in my opinion better

Whilst not disagreeing with that concept there is one major sticking point if the "mobile" style is to be Chameleon based and that is that prosilver will be incompatible and need some major work doing to it. One of the requirements of the Chameleon project is that some areas of the core code will need to be reworked to allow Chameleon to function as intended - notably remove any html from core .php files.

I do accept that in some respects prosilver needs an "overhaul" so that it can use modern techniques and be easier to manage.

[GanstaZ]

Has anyone even compared chameleon with prosilver? Chameleon is based on components & modern code while prosilver is like "Jurassic park" era.. Yes.. prosilver can be re-factored, but as Hanakin mentioned on develop forum.. it will take a lot of time, effort & testing..

[david63]

prosilver can be re-factored, but as Hanakin mentioned on develop forum.. it will take a lot of time, effort & testing

But arguably in the four years that Chameleon has already been in development, and still no sign of a fully working style, prosilver could have been reworked and be "up and running"

[GanstaZ]

That is true.. I agree, but it could have been done by anyone who wanted to contribute, but as we see.. Same old prosilver)

[david63]

it could have been done by anyone who wanted to contribute

But this is the whole problem that nobody is coming forward, or being recruited, to contribute to any aspect of the project. I suspect that there are enough style developers out there that could have re-factored prosilver in four years - after all Arty did most of it overnight

[GanstaZ]

As i see it.. all would be much easier for everyone (ext developers, style ones + devs as well),.. if at least prosilver was converted fully into twig syntax & coding guidelines of chameleon were used.

[david63]

if at least prosilver was converted fully into twig syntax

Agreed and I don't know why that has not been done as there is a tool designed to do exactly that and it could all be achieved in a couple of minutes.

[GanstaZ]

If i can get master branch to work (install doesn't finish).. I will do it with modules.. so something will remain to convert for later

[3Di]

If i can get master branch to work (install doesn't finish).. I will do it with modules.. so something will remain to convert for later

If I were you I would focus on porting modules to controllers (PHP) then think about twigging the whole crap.
Which is not so important IMHO at the present time.

[ukautoforums]

Take a look at some of the Facebook documentaries

This imprecision is what made Facebook big and boards dry: now even more people are able to write texts that are shallow/hollow, while on boards there was at least put some effort into writing. And it backlashed onto boards nowadays.

Why not linking to at least one of said documentaries? This has become such an annoying problem: it's the internet, but nobody links anymore. Only texts. Vague texts. If I'd ask for how to drive to the supermarket the answer will probably be driving instructions off a wild position instead of the unambiguous postal address.

Depends where you are based, but take a look at Netflix - The Social Dilemma. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaaC57t ... el=Netflix

Don't watch with the view at how shocked you are as a consumer of Facebook. Watch with a view at how clever Facebook is at getting user engagement. Its the exact things we should be doing with PHPBB.