Improving the validation process

[DavidIQ]

Some of the ideas mentioned so far are either non-starters or not understanding the issues. For instance "abolishing" the queue for all extensions except official ones is basically what we have now, but with added complexity since the "Extensions in Development" forum already exists as a place for users to gather feedback on their extension so that they later submit to the queue. Then there's the suggestion to use things like CodeSniffer or other tools to format code properly. While it would reduce some of the noise during validation it would not eliminate the need to do a code review so that would do little to help. Having a testing suite, which is something already available as previously mentioned by Matt, also does not eliminate the need to do a code review not to mention that testing itself is not a bottleneck in the process at this time thanks to the hard work of the Jr. Extension Validators.

The most obvious issue that has been brought up various times in this topic is the validation queue speed, which has always been a problem. Addressing that issue is a lot more complicated and not well understood as can be surmised from some of the suggestions, even a few suggestions from some that have either never had an extension in the queue for validation or have not had anything validated in years, which makes it hard to take some of those suggestions seriously (how can an individual suggest improvements to a current process they know little to nothing about?).

Of course the hardest part of addressing this speed issue is going to be manpower, which happens to also be the reason for the queue being slow. The obvious solution (adding more manpower) has not yielded much since almost nobody seems to like the idea of looking over someone else's code to do a code review. This has also been the case even though we've reached out directly to some in the community so direct contact hasn't helped.

All that being said some of the suggestions provided we're already throwing around internally to address some of these concerns:

• Deny an extension if it didn't pass testing. This works for the current activity happening in the queue since extensions get tested at a faster pace than their code gets validated. It's possible that insta-denying after a test failure may help to alleviate this queue slowness.
• More clearly identify the queue items that are just updates so they can be validated a bit faster through a code diff against the previously approved version. This does move us slightly away from the current model of "last one in, last one out", at least where updates are involved, but that's not going to prevent us from considering or implementing this.
• Having known issues: we haven't really talked about this one, but it's also a very low-impact problem that I'm not sure has caused a lot of slowness. I also can't think of a reason an extension author would want a buggy extension in their name to be released in the cdb. In any case if there is a known issue it could probably be communicated in the notes when the extension author creates the revision.
• Continue looking for more volunteers. Interested?

P.S. to those that seem to be of the belief that they will just have "forever" topics in the "Extensions in Development" forum: be aware that those topics may be closed and marked as abandoned at any time since you are misusing that forum. If the intention of your topics is not to have them validated and added to the cdb then that forum is not the place for your extension. You're welcome to host it in GitHub and on your own site, but not advertise it here.

[rxu]

Having known issues: we haven't really talked about this one, but it's also a very low-impact problem that I'm not sure has caused a lot of slowness. I also can't think of a reason an extension author would want a buggy extension in their name to be released in the cdb. In any case if there is a known issue it could probably be communicated in the notes when the extension author creates the revision.

Just to clarify, what I meant is: extension author sends an extension for validation; extension validator validates it but found some minor/non-breaking/non-security issues/bugs/malfunctions; instead of denying the ext, validator approves it with "known issues" which can be fixed with the next extension release. Well, optionally validator might request if the author approves publishing the ext with "known issues".

[Paul]

That already happens, as long it are minor issues it might get approved with notes to the author.

[RMcGirr83]

I submitted very minor edits to an extension to be PHP 8.0 compliant on 10/11. To date it's still in the queue. This has been an ongoing issue with very few validating extensions (only one validator I can think of that was "with it" is Kasimi, who was last active on 10/10) with whatever reason always been given (we're on holiday, we're volunteers, I'm not on the team to validate extensions, etc...ad nauseum). You, DavidIQ, as a team leader want to change that? Then as a team leader change it. As I have said on more than one occasion, being a volunteer, does not excuse you from performing the duties you were "hired" for as a volunteer. We all have lives but that doesn't necessarily excuse you from performing the duties you were put on a team to do.

The pond is getting thin with "suckers"!

This will probably be my last post on this forum. Good luck!!!

[DavidIQ]

I submitted very minor edits to an extension to be PHP 8.0 compliant on 10/11.

Not that it's a whole lot better, but the only extension of yours in the queue is from 10/20 (which is now set to be approved, according to the previously stated changes, so should make it out soon). If you have something you think you sent on 10/11 that hasn't been validated please point it out.

The rest of your comment seems to imply that I somehow have the power as team lead to force others to do work, which I don't, or that I should maybe punish those that go missing for some time by removing them, which does the exact opposite of what we're trying to accomplish. As someone that has served in various capacities in at least 2 different phpBB Teams I would have expected you to have more empathy or understanding.

[warmweer]

Could the 10/11 be a typo?
There's also a "Rich" extension submitted on 16/11

[3Di]

Could the 10/11 be a typo?
There's also a "Rich" extension submitted on 16/11

Once upon a time there was a rule in teams: never divulge internal data, neither when you are in the team nor when you are out of it. A rule to which I (for example) still adhere after more than a decade. Now I wonder if the rule is still valid or if you haven't read it.

In case it is not valid anymore please let me know.

[warmweer]

Could the 10/11 be a typo?
There's also a "Rich" extension submitted on 16/11

Once upon a time there was a rule in teams: never divulge internal data, neither when you are in the team nor when you are out of it. A rule to which I (for example) still adhere after more than a decade. Now I wonder if the rule is still valid or if you haven't read it.

In case it is not valid anymore please let me know.

The rule is still in place and I abide by it.
And yes a date is data and is subject to that rule so strictly speaking I did break that rule and I'll accept the punishment/banishment.
It's not exactly a secret that Rich produces extensions which are submitted and validated and a confirmation that there were 2 in the queue with different submission dates can hardly be considered a State Secret. Nor is it or should it be a secret that extension testing is being taken seriously and can be a lengthy process, sometimes tedious.
Now I 'm starting to wonder whether confirming that the non-disclosure law is still in place, can de considered a breach of that rule. Isn't the existence of a non-disclosure rule in itself subject to that rule .

[3Di]

The very mistery to me is to see you as a Jr Ext. validator, as you did not contribute in any way with MODs or Extensions in all your life here. https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/author/warmweer/

What are the requirements?

The requirements for becoming a Junior Validator are not as high as as the requirements for becoming an Extension Customisations Team Validator.
The most important requirements are listed below:

You are an extension author/writer.
You have submitted extensions to the Customisation Database.
You are able to communicate well in English.
Understand how the phpBB code works. ?
Familiarity with the extension validation process.

On a secondary view, I see that that group is very short in terms of members (except for those very well known - and some of them are MIA since long time I guess) - which I doubt they have the time to Jr validate extensions IMHO.

2022-01-12 02_06_47-2022-01-12 02_05_22-phpBB • Members — Mozilla Firefox.png (PNG Image, 934 × 473 .png

I see a new entry there (Chris1278), maybe due to his first extensions (not style) just validated today?

...
In case it is not valid anymore please let me know.

And no, I do not expect an answer about ^^ this ^^ from you

I didn't even expect a fullquote on the last post anyway from an old user. But that's a small detail.

So if you don't have any advice on how to help improve the problem in the subject of this discussion I consider you off-topic.

[ChrisGreaves]

Hello Extension Writers, ... Thank you in advance for your feedback.

Hello David. I have read some of the source code in the publicly released package.
There do not seem to be any self-testing procedures in the source code.
Self-testing installations have been around since 1970 (FORTRAN) at least.
I write Self-testing procedures today in my VBA applications, and they significantly reduce my testing time for modular processes.
If phpBB can make a significant reduction in the manual part of testing code, might that help?
Chris Greaves

[warmweer]

I didn't even expect a fullquote on the last post anyway from an old user. But that's a small detail.

A full quote seemed necessary to me since I was/am under scrutiny and leaving out the date "issue" which started this could lead to suspicion that a lot more is at hand.

As to why I'm a jr extension validator, considering that I'm not an extension writer, have zero submissions, have had no familiarity with the validation process, and there are doubts about my understanding of how the phpBB code works ... that's something you should take up with the selection panel.
Maybe it's just my good looks
On a side note (this is really becoming off topic): the zero submissions impediment may well not be applicable to me in the foreseeable future.

As to ideas about improving the problem, I'll rephrase that to alleviating the problem ... Personally I think it's mainly shortage of manpower at certain times (impossible to foresee/difficult to avoid) and the most simple solution is to increase manpower - you could perhaps suggest some individuals to DavidIQ (in private).

[3Di]

The most obvious issue that has been brought up various times in this topic is the validation queue speed, which has always been a problem. Addressing that issue is a lot more complicated and not well understood as can be surmised from some of the suggestions, even a few suggestions from some that have either never had an extension in the queue for validation or have not had anything validated in years, which makes it hard to take some of those suggestions seriously (how can an individual suggest improvements to a current process they know little to nothing about?).

Not to bring it up again, but having pseudo validators doesn't help either, I don't think so, (they belong to the category of those who don't know and don't know, but others know a lot about code), in fact it diminishes your credit. I would suggest you avoid hiring unknown forces, but rather stay within the small but recognised validators. The pool of valid code writers with extreme knowledge of phpBB code these days is very small and requires extreme care. I personally am ashamed to be judged by people I know who know little or nothing about phpBB (I've been coding intrinsically for about 20 years now) and I've always been careful to learn from people I know who are skilled. If I were you I would consider them instead of evaluating them as mere users, just imagine that at some point none of us will be doing any work on our extensions here on this site (you know it's been done for years)... how about that? Since the success of phpBB has been in the modifications and now the extensions but certainly not in the codebase offerings. No one pays us, there is no profit, but there is for phpBB if only for viglink and all the ADs revenue, otherwise you would have no reason to exist.

Of course the hardest part of addressing this speed issue is going to be manpower, which happens to also be the reason for the queue being slow. The obvious solution (adding more manpower) has not yielded much since almost nobody seems to like the idea of looking over someone else's code to do a code review. This has also been the case even though we've reached out directly to some in the community so direct contact hasn't helped.

This has always been a problem, ever since you were nobody here but I was already in the MOD Team and I know things, don't make me talk without deliberation.

So this has been going on for years, so the thing has never worked as it should. So if I were you I'd be asking myself some questions, as the pond is small and only leeches circulate, so that leaves saving the salvage, just in case. If you can't do that as you are the master of phpBB who do you think can help you? And for free? I'd start running it like a business, gone are the days of Pacman and Asteroids, it's 2022. And I still don't think the few good ones left are here for free, there wouldn't be this kind of lobby that doesn't want to change, no one changes something that makes. Nobody's a fool. Should we be?

Not to mention the latest validation failures I have had to endure and I am not going to get over it, not even dead.

If there are any errors in my English please let me know and I will correct them. I write freehand.

[DavidIQ]

The rule is still in place and I abide by it.
And yes a date is data and is subject to that rule so strictly speaking I did break that rule and I'll accept the punishment/banishment.

No need. I opened up that can of worms by making the queue comment so this was just a reaction to that.

What are the requirements?

The requirements for becoming a Junior Validator are not as high as as the requirements for becoming an Extension Customisations Team Validator.
The most important requirements are listed below:

You are an extension author/writer.
You have submitted extensions to the Customisation Database.
You are able to communicate well in English.
Understand how the phpBB code works. ?
Familiarity with the extension validation process.

A good point in pointing out the requirements. We will endeavour to update them as these have become more like suggested guidelines rather than strict requirements as of late.

don't make me talk without deliberation.

This really goes both ways don't you think?

In any case the validation process, while painstaking and sometimes slow, will be even more important when 4.0 comes around since one would be able to download and install an extension directly into one's forum from the ACP. It won't matter if we designed it or not, if an extension turns out to have a vulnerability we'd be the ones to answer for that primarily so I can't see that being eliminated, at least not without phpBB taking the responsibility of responding to any and all security reports for extensions. I'm all for making the process faster and easier for all those involved so anything around those lines, including the ideas already presented, is more than welcome.

[david63]

In any case the validation process, while painstaking and sometimes slow, will be even more important when 4.0 comes around since one would be able to download and install an extension directly into one's forum from the ACP

Validated or not users will be able to download and install extensions via the ACP.

[3Di]

The usual "non answer" we'd say...

You missed all the salient points by jumping from one articulate speech to another... yours that isn't. Instead of focusing on the accomplished facts.

Also if and when phpBB4 will be released also "normal" extensions will be installed as they are now. So you are not telling anything new or striking.

Sometimes it seems to me that you don't really know what you are talking about or you haven't tested things and you assert by intuition. Sorry but this is the impression, like when you were talking about .editorconfig and phpstorm.

Here the problem is the chronic slowness of the queue that has always existed, the fact that you are few and ill-assorted and that some requests on your part are not in heaven or on earth. Note how many well-known writers have not shown up here at the appeal, do you think they have not read or have something to add or remove? Do you think phpBB without our extensions or modifications has ever had the success it has now? Reread my post calmly and respond.

If you also want to talk about me go ahead, I have no problem. But don't censor any responses in case.