Improving the validation process

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luo-ning
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Re: Improving the validation process

Post by luo-ning »

D'oh! Now it will be there forever, taunting me from the "My Contributions" page, a reminder of my folly.
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luo-ning
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Re: Improving the validation process

Post by luo-ning »

OK next thing: sometimes it seems validators make suggestions just for the sake of it, without considering whether the suggestion is relevant to the extension or even desirable.

Case in point:
https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/exte ... 51#p826851

According to the author, the validator suggested they add extra padding to their dark-mode styles. Result? I, along with the OP in that thread and probably countless other admins, have been trying to figure out why the layout keeps randomly shifting by 15 pixels every time the dark-mode toggle is clicked.

IMO this is unambiguously a bug; there's no good reason a dark-mode toggle should ever be messing around with layout styles. "Dark" and "shifted by 15 pixels" are two unrelated concepts. It's like if you bought a new TV that every time you turned it on would simultaneously start running you a bath.

So... can validators please think twice before making suggestions, and ask themselves whether the suggestion is relevant or not? 😅😅😅
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DavidIQ
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Re: Improving the validation process

Post by DavidIQ »

Suggestions are just that: suggestions, not requirements. 😉 If the author goes along with it without considering the repercussions then that is not the fault of the validator.
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luo-ning
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Re: Improving the validation process

Post by luo-ning »

I'm not interested in assigning fault or blame, I'm interested in improving the process, per this topic's title. One improvement would be giving guidance to validators, such as:
  • Make sure your suggestions concern the core functionality of the extension, rather than adding unrelated functionality
  • Don't make suggestions unless you're reasonably sure they would improve the extension for the majority of users, not just your own specific use case
  • It's OK to not make any suggestions at all and just say "looks good to me" if you're satisfied that the extension works properly, does what it says it does, is well-written, provides good user experience, etc.
Last edited by luo-ning on Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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DavidIQ
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Re: Improving the validation process

Post by DavidIQ »

While I agree with the principle of what you're saying that's just not how software development or code reviews work in the real life, as I'm sure you're aware. Suggestions are made and sometimes they're off and it's up to the developer to actually check the suggestion. It's irresponsible to not give them, period. We already check any suggestions given and if they're reasonable they're passed along. We can't be 100% sure a suggestion will work for everything, that's unrealistic.
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luo-ning
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Re: Improving the validation process

Post by luo-ning »

DavidIQ wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:43 pm We already check any suggestions given and if they're reasonable they're passed along.
In that case, perhaps the same advice can be given to the suggestion-checkers? Because adding bath-running functionality to my TV remote is IMO not a "reasonable" suggestion 😉

I'd also add that, due to how long validation often seems to take, there's a strong incentive for authors to just say "OK, made the change" rather than waiting for the validator to respond to a rebuttal, which will probably add several more days or even weeks to the process.

Again, I'm interested in improving the process, not blaming individuals. If the incentives line up a certain way, people will typically act accordingly.
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Ger
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Re: Improving the validation process

Post by Ger »

Code reviews should be code reviews. And sure, while reviewing you see stuff working and you'll have an opinion about it. But, as DavidIQ writes, in the real world one would still merge it when the code had good quality, is secure, etc. You then should make a suggestion to the product owner about your opinion. You should never enforce your opinion in a code review!

That said, I have another concern:
Almost every suggestion made in this topic, the team jumps on and states why it would not work, or, when it's about changing our dropping current processes, they reply about why it's the only way it can be.

Are you really sure you want feedback at all?

Now this might seem offensive, but I'm trying to get you reflect on yourselves. Of you're only to defend the status quo, this topic should better be closed since it's just wasting time.
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luo-ning
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Re: Improving the validation process

Post by luo-ning »

Yeah, as a newcomer to this community I've noticed a looooot of defensiveness, e.g. "we can't change X because we've always done it this way", "this feature is unnecessary because that's not how I personally use forums", "if you can't understand the point I'm making or disagree with me in any way it must be because you're an idiot", "you should commit to supporting this obsolete extension in perpetuity, despite the fact that neither I nor any other admin is using it and its single feature is already covered by a different extension", and my personal favorite "it's the user's fault!"

Those are all paraphrases of course (and none from this particular thread I should add), but it's hard not to look at this kind of stuff and think "what am I getting myself into here?"
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Re: Improving the validation process

Post by Steve »

luo-ning wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:15 pm Yeah, as a newcomer to this community..
Don’t worry your self too much, you will be ignored as soon as the keyboard warriors find some thing in their house to clean. :lol:

Keep up the community spirit and code, until your eyes bleed!
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Re: Improving the validation process

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Ger wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:28 am Now this might seem offensive, but I'm trying to get you reflect on yourselves. Of you're only to defend the status quo, this topic should better be closed since it's just wasting time.
Agreed. :ugeek:
luo-ning wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:15 pm SNIP
Those are all paraphrases of course (and none from this particular thread I should add), but it's hard not to look at this kind of stuff and think "what am I getting myself into here?"
I can understand. Agreed. :ugeek:

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LukeWCS
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Re: Improving the validation process

Post by LukeWCS »

ignore it

edit: I posted in the wrong place. ;)
Last edited by LukeWCS on Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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david63
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Re: Improving the validation process

Post by david63 »

LukeWCS wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:40 am ignore it
It appears that most have done
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danieltj
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Re: Improving the validation process

Post by danieltj »

I would suggest one improvement is to let people 'soft validate' extensions (and/or styles) before a Jr. Validator or Customisation Team Member gets to it in order to kick-start the process and make it faster and also lets people learn how to make a good extension and how the whole process works.

An example such as myself where I'd like to do more extension writing (I'm having fun) but I'm finding things that are new to me quite hard to understand but if I was tasked with validating customisations, I'd be exposed to lots of code samples I could learn from.

There is also the possibility of looking at customisations already reviewed and see why they were rejected (or approved). Use the process as a learning process for others.

The project is run by volunteers that understandably have other stuff in their lives, why not crowd source some of this effort to the wider community? I'd be up for it and do what I can.
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Paul
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Re: Improving the validation process

Post by Paul »

danieltj wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:40 pm An example such as myself where I'd like to do more extension writing (I'm having fun) but I'm finding things that are new to me quite hard to understand but if I was tasked with validating customisations, I'd be exposed to lots of code samples I could learn from.

There is also the possibility of looking at customisations already reviewed and see why they were rejected (or approved). Use the process as a learning process for others.

The project is run by volunteers that understandably have other stuff in their lives, why not crowd source some of this effort to the wider community? I'd be up for it and do what I can.
You can apply as junior validator: https://www.phpbb.com/extensions/junior-validators/. In short the task of a junior validator is to test extensions, and see if there are any major issues with the extension. Junior extensions can also see the full validation history of extensions.
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danieltj
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Re: Improving the validation process

Post by danieltj »

Paul wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:32 pm
danieltj wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:40 pm An example such as myself where I'd like to do more extension writing (I'm having fun) but I'm finding things that are new to me quite hard to understand but if I was tasked with validating customisations, I'd be exposed to lots of code samples I could learn from.

There is also the possibility of looking at customisations already reviewed and see why they were rejected (or approved). Use the process as a learning process for others.

The project is run by volunteers that understandably have other stuff in their lives, why not crowd source some of this effort to the wider community? I'd be up for it and do what I can.
You can apply as junior validator: https://www.phpbb.com/extensions/junior-validators/. In short the task of a junior validator is to test extensions, and see if there are any major issues with the extension. Junior extensions can also see the full validation history of extensions.
Oh, I didn't realise anyone could apply for that. I'll give that a go.
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